Original Gangster (Reporter)
An Interview with The Gangster Report's Scott Burnstein about the Black Mafia Family
I’ve been interviewed scores of times during my career by everyone from Terry Gross to Marcia Clark. One of the best interviewers was Scott Burnstein from The Gangster Report who interviewed me for his podcast, Original Gangsters, (you can listen to it here: Original Gangsters Podcast Interviews Frank Owen) about the murder of Run-DMC’s deejay Jam Master Jay. So I thought I would return the favor.
Scott, who was born in Oak Park, a suburb on the outskirts of Detroit, is probably the country’s foremost expert on the Black Mafia Family, the drug organization that was founded in Detroit in 1989. By 2000, BMF had become one of the largest cocaine trafficking organizations in America. According to the Drug Enforcement Administration, the group employed 500 people and ran stash houses in a dozen states. The organization was notorious for investing in hip-hop businesses to launder drug money. In 2005, the Drug Enforcement Administration arrested sixteen members of the Black Mafia Family, including the organization’s founders, Terry “Southwest T” Flenory and his brother, Demetrius “Big Meech” Flenory, accusing them of trafficking thousands of kilos of cocaine worth over a quarter of a billion dollars. Two years ago, a judge granted Terry Flenory early release because of health reasons. His brother remains in prison.
Tell me about The Gangster Report? When did it start? What was the original idea behind the website?
I view The Gangster Report as the Rolling Stone of the North American underworld online. The site launched in 2014. We cover gangsters and organized crime the way Rolling Stone covers musicians and much like Rolling Stone, we augment that coverage with a pop culture ethos and elite context and nuance. At its core, like with all my work, in whatever media space I'm working in, it's about great storytelling and the most comprehensive and authentic sources.
In 2003, I wrote a story for Playboy magazine that revealed Jam Master Jay was killed over a drug deal gone bad and the supplier of the drugs was a mysterious character known only as “Uncle.” Last October, after Jay’s killers were arrested, I wrote a follow-up article that disclosed that Uncle was BMF co-founder Terry Flenory? How did you find out? Did Terry confirm it to you?
I actually didn't see your report on Terry until recently. My knowledge of the case spawns from your excellent reporting [my original 2003 Playboy story], but the update last fall somehow got past me. I had been trying to track who was "Uncle" on my end and was thrown off by the St. Louis angle. When I heard St. Louis, I began hitting up my sources in the old BMF St. Louis Crew, led by "Wonnie" Gatling and "Dog Man" Jones. I figured it was one of them. Obviously, I was wrong.
How did you become friends with Terry? Describe him as a person?
I have never spoken specifically with Terry himself about Jam Master Jay. I wouldn't categorize myself as "friends" with Terry, just to be clear. I've met with him, spoken to him on a number of occasions since he was released from prison in 2020. But we don't socialize. Terry is understated but still larger than life in his own way. He's very smart, very sharp, just like his brother. His demeanor is chill. He doesn't have to tell you who he is, but he exudes "shot caller" in the way he moves.
Why did you become interested in BMF? The Detroit connection? Describe the importance of BMF?
My interest in BMF began in the 2000s at the end of their reign, as it coincided with my early days as a true crime writer and researcher. The magnitude of what they had built was never seen before. They way they did it, had never been done before. They were hard to miss. Especially, being from Detroit. For some reason, as the story was first being told on a national level, it was being spun as an "Atlanta" story. I was like, "Wait, this is a Detroit story, first and foremost and that seems to be getting lost.” I took it upon myself to change that narrative with my writing on the organization and the movement they created. Terry and Meech were the Walgreens of wholesale cocaine in America. They corporatized the drug game at a level that was unparalleled. The vision, the follow-through, the blueprint, it was a thing of beauty. This group basically took over the entire country's dope trade and left no bodies. They did it on pure power of will and diplomacy. These guys weren't just influencing hip-hop culture, dope-boy culture. They were the culture.
Describe what it was like when Terry was released from prison?
When Terry came home to Detroit in May 2020, it was a very big deal, It was like a king returning to his castle. The whole city was buzzing, Hip-hop luminaries from around the country flew in to welcome him back to freedom: 50 Cent, Puffy Combs, Snoop Dogg, Nelly, Fabolous, Fat Joe, LL Cool J, T.I, Young Jeezy, all came to town. 50 Cent gifted him a brand new Bentley. The line at his mother's house was literally around the block for days, as people waited to pay their respects. Fathers bringing their sons for selfie pics with Southwest T. It was surreal, but speaks to who he is, who he was and what him and his brother meant to people, in and out of the drug game. Rappers love Terry and Meech because that's the archetype for what is valued most in that culture. Power, money, respect. South West T and Meech were the epitome.
When you interviewed me, you mentioned something about BMF financing Bad Boy Records? Is that true?
Terry and Meech helped put a lot of those guys on in the rap game. That's no secret. According to federal informants and a number of my sources, Bad Boy Records and Murder Inc. Records in New York and So So Def Records in Atlanta, all got start-up money from the Flenory brothers in the 1990s, in addition to and hidden from those labels’ industry backers.
Bad Boy Records and Murder Inc. Records in New York and So So Def Recordings in Atlanta, all got start-up money from BMF.
How did you find out the feds had subpoenaed Terry to testify at the Jam Master Jay trial?
I learned about the Terry subpoena from three separate sources of mine, close to or in the Flenory family orbit.
How does BMF compare to other Detroit drug gangs from the past such as the Errol Flynns, the Chambers Brothers, and Young Boys Inc?
Those groups were strictly local, for the most part. BMF was a national brand. It was a genuine crime franchise. It was McDonald’s for the American dope world in the 1990s and first half of the 2000s
What's in the future for Terry? Obviously, he can't go back to selling drugs.
I do believe Terry wants to get back into the music game. I hear as a producer, booker, or manager. The kind of guy that connects people. That’s what the Flenory brothers are best at, putting the right people together, plugging this guy with that guy who knows that guy. Being the man behind the man behind the man.